nothing more......

Here we archive threads whose time for rest seems to us to have come. All visitors are welcome to read here, but no new threads or posts can be made in this space. Thus, these threads have earned a bit of peace and tranquility, and it behooves us all to grant them that.
That I am
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nothing more......

Postby That I am » May 23rd, 2005, 4:46 pm

It has been quiet for some time around here; do you guys ( also ) have the feeling ( sometimes), that there is nothing more to be said or to be written?
That all that there is left is "you" and "yourself"?

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zoofence
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Postby zoofence » May 25th, 2005, 3:05 pm

Re the quiet: It is not unusual at this time of year for Open Forum to become relatively quiet. We observed the same phenomenon in its last incarnation at ... wherever we had it before (at the moment, I can’t recall the name of the server that originally hosted Open Forum).

For those visitors living in the northern hemisphere, this is the beginning of summer when outdoor activities beckon. Speaking for ourselves, we experienced a long and hard winter this year (we’ve even had a couple of frosts this month, and the nights still get down into the lower-to-mid forties), and so the opportunity to get outside and work the soil is hard to resist. I expect there are many TZFers who are reacting similarly to the return of the sun!

You asked, Is there anything more to be said or written? Certainly not anything new, anything original. In that sense, it has all been said. But our experience has been that, even though it has all been said, and said beautifully over the millenia, each seeker needs to discover it for himself or herself and then say it for himself or herself. However we define “It”, It is not something that another can discover and describe for us, and then about which we can say, “Oh, I see”. Another's Awakening and their description and their guidance can encourage us and motivate us and comfort us and reassure us and alert us, but in the end we have actually to see it with our own eyes, with eyes that see. And when we do, it seems to be inevitable and normal that we need to say it, to speak it out loud.

So while any particular seeker may not be saying or writing anything new, it is “NEW!” to her or him, and has to be said.

So it seems to me.

Rad
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Joined: May 26th, 2005, 5:18 pm

Re: Quiet

Postby Rad » May 26th, 2005, 5:28 pm

I agree, sometimes I feel like there's nothing more to say, and it feels very quiet inside but then something comes up and I am back trying to find some sort of assurance.

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anna
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Postby anna » May 26th, 2005, 9:17 pm

Oh my yes, it is a real problem with me. I often start to write something, and a little way into it, I realize that there is nothing to say, indeed, I often read what I have written and find it so inadequate, and so unnecessary.

That said, some great old Sufi (there were so many of them!), stated that the dilemma all seekers eventually find themselves in is the unresolvable realization that there is nothing you can do to change anything, and indeed, in your efforts to change, or to help another out of their own personal suffering, you realize that nothing will change, and your efforts are ultimately hopeless, and yet, you MUST do the very best you can to make all efforts to effect change, knowing full well that nothing will change. This brings me comfort, that another seemed to find himself in the same straights as I do, and he survived the unresolvable.

Indeed, if taken a step further, his words were so supportive of my own dilemma, that it is proof that there IS a reason to state a position - since in my own experience, I benefitted from HIS statement of his position. So there you are! Full circle! :roll:

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anna
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Postby anna » May 26th, 2005, 9:30 pm

To carry this a bit further:

Perhaps the actual living of that truth, that you must try to help, both yourself and others out of their suffering, knowing full well that there is nothing you can do to change the situation, is actually a subtle expression of universal love. In other words, to do this knowing all of this, is love without attachment nor expectation - it is an expression of unconditional love, Perhaps, then, when one finds oneself with nothing to say, that one is at the point where true love begins to find its way into one's heart. Surely, the impetus to assist knowing there is nothing that can be done is a sacrificial act of a sort, and surely, is therefore an expression of unconditional love.

The heart break that occurs when one makes the effort, knowing there is nothing that can be done, nor indeed, needs to be done, or said --saying is just another expression of doing after all -- is, in my own experience, a bittersweet sadness that is felt directly within the heart. I might venture to identify that as the feeling of unconditional love. Nothing is gained, nothing is changed, nothing needs to be gained, nothing needs to be changed,and yet, one is moved to do all of that out of genuine feeling toward another's struggle, ignorance, suffering, or fear.

Sigh -----life becomes MORE heart felt, and thus more painful, the more you realize how impotent you truly are, and how much you yearn to share and help. :cry:

Rad
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Postby Rad » November 8th, 2005, 7:55 pm

Anna, I could'nt have said it better. It seems a few months ago, I was living proof of this queitness we were talking about and recently I am questioning everything. I guess it is because, recently I feel like I am stuck and I would like answers quickly but I am still playing the waiting game :cry:

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anna
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Postby anna » November 17th, 2005, 3:41 am

Ah, the waiting game. I think that the waiting is actually a last ditch effort on the part of the mind/ego, the one who believes it is in charge of things, uses to keep us on tender hooks, keep us from realizing that nothing needs to be done, nothing needs to be waited for, that it is all right here, right now. If we accept that we are "waiting for something", then we can maintain that forward looking attitude, which, of course, is nothing more than a ruse to keep us intellectually imprisoned. If we give up looking to the future, then perhaps we may find ourselves in the present - God forbid, that would mean that there is nothing that needs to be done, nothing that is wrong with anything, right? :? Right. The agitation one feels from time to time, after the quiet, is again, a ploy used by a losing player, the dominating mind, to ring us back in, to get on the top of the hill once more, to drive us, to dominate. I suppose, eventually, the quiet reigns supreme, and continuously, and the agitated mind cannot re-surface to muddy the waters.

This is a life-long affair, this mind's domination. I am amazed when I realize there was a time in my life when I was unaware that the mind dominated me - indeed, I thought I WAS the mind. So at least I have left THAT position. Each little step is a victory.


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