Who said this?

User avatar
anna
Posts: 210
Joined: December 29th, 2004, 9:28 pm
Contact:

Who said this?

Postby anna » May 5th, 2005, 1:47 am

Was it Nisargadatta, or Da Free John (?) who said "I am not here to console you." :?:

User avatar
zoofence
Site Admin
Posts: 187
Joined: September 7th, 2002, 3:07 pm

Postby zoofence » July 12th, 2005, 12:03 am

I don't know which of those two -- if either -- said that, but it sounds to me more like Da Free John. And for all his problems ... and they are legion, if he said it, he's right.

It reminds me of something said by the Spanish philosopher Miguel de Unamuno, which I put on TZF's Here's A Thought last January: My aim is to agitate and disturb people. I'm not selling bread, I'm selling yeast.

Or, of course, the Gospels Teacher: Do you think I came to bring peace on earth? No, I tell you, but division. (Luke 12:51)

Chances are, if a Guru or Teacher makes us feel good about our preconceived notions -- that is, if he or she "consoles" us (unless, of course, we are in some kind of an emergency situation) -- it is likely we have not been listening with ears that hear.

My own experience has been that what a Teacher's Presence accomplishes, with a single word or, even in utter silence, a single look, is to sweep away months, years, of inner cobwebs. It's like a healing, I suppose, on the inner. It's not an alarm clock, because that is jarring. It's more like a sunrise. Quiet but certain. Where there was darkness, there is light. Where there was ignorance, there is clarity. In the words of Ibn 'Arabi, knowledge without learning.

I don't know whether it is "intentional" on their part. I expect it is more like the sun, which warms simply because it is. They shed light, and it enters those who are open and receptive. If we're closed to it, it can't get in. Not then, but later, sometime later, we will be open, and it will enter. As ACIM puts it so precisely, It is a required course. Only the time you take it is voluntary.

Ralph Waldo Emerson said it: We see only what we are prepared to see.

Let's face it, our lives are our selves perceived outwardly.

User avatar
anna
Posts: 210
Joined: December 29th, 2004, 9:28 pm
Contact:

Postby anna » July 24th, 2005, 1:02 pm

Zoofence wrote: "My own experience has been that what a Teacher's Presence accomplishes, with a single word or, even in utter silence, a single look, is to sweep away months, years, of inner cobwebs. It's like a healing, I suppose, on the inner. It's not an alarm clock, because that is jarring. It's more like a sunrise. Quiet but certain. Where there was darkness, there is light. Where there was ignorance, there is clarity. In the words of Ibn 'Arabi, knowledge without learning."

Yes, must have been Da Free John. A propos to the above quote I took from you, he said as well "I am nothing more than a cleaner, I sweep out the bottom of the bird cage every night for you." (Not a direct quote, but close enough!) To stand in the presence of an individual who is willing to put it straight to you, must be both refreshing and terrifying at the same time. But to contrast his blunt and often painful discourse, the Sufi insists that whatever one does or says, one must not hurt the feelings of another. I aways found that admonition a difficult one, because how does one therefore instruct a recalcitrant student? Perhaps one doesn't, in that case :( .

Actually, by following that requirement, you end up leaving the entire process of instruction within the student's hands, which is more than likely the best way to teach. There is no doubt, that unless asked, nothing is learned, no matter how able the teacher. Therefore, the asking is similar to the hearing, and if the student doesn't hear, or doesn't WANT to hear, no amount of insistence will make her hear. We think we are not in control, but we are even in control of our destiny, if we integrate that fact, no? 8)

User avatar
Bhakti
Posts: 40
Joined: January 7th, 2005, 2:49 pm

Postby Bhakti » July 24th, 2005, 3:09 pm

Anna has said:
To stand in the presence of an individual who is willing to put it straight to you, must be both refreshing and terrifying at the same time. But to contrast his blunt and often painful discourse, the Sufi insists that whatever one does or says, one must not hurt the feelings of another. I aways found that admonition a difficult one, because how does one therefore instruct a recalcitrant student? Perhaps one doesn't, in that case.


It seems to me that if a seeker or student wants to learn, what she or he hears---no matter how blunt or gentle the Teacher speaks---will be terrifying to the ego but joyful, relieving, and uplifiting to Who I Am. At least this has been my experience. And what a rebirth and love-filled experience that's like the sun rising and settng!

If one resists or denies what the Teacher offers---be it in Her words or in Her silence---I would say that the seeker doesn't want to accept the Truth and will go on playing out the same egoic games with him- or herself and going through the same conundrums and problems over and over again until he or she is worn out and crazed, which might be in this lifetime or in many to come. So we do choose our destiny.

Ave atque Blessings, Bhakti


Return to “The Sand Box”