Christ In You

talitha_cumi

Christ In You

Postby talitha_cumi » February 28th, 2005, 5:20 pm

Christ In You [anonymously authored, 1919]
http://home.earthlink.net/~miraclestudi ... tinyou.pdf

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Postby W4TVQ » March 1st, 2005, 8:03 pm

I tried opening this and got an error message stating that "the file does not exist." ??

Art
"I can at best report only from my own wilderness. The important thing is that each man possess such a wilderness and that he consider what marvels are to be observed there." -- Loren Eiseley

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Christ in you

Postby That I am » March 2nd, 2005, 12:49 pm

It's a very long text; didn't have time to read it all. The impression given (at least to me!) is that we need "Christ" to be "saved". One might think that one needs another one to be okay, that one oneself is worthless, useless and no good. Sounds typical "churchly"!
Correct me if I'm wrong.....

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Postby anna » March 3rd, 2005, 8:48 pm

I too went to the link - this is a Course in Miracles site. Some writings by a follower of the Course. Reads nicely enough, but sounds to me like someone who has decided that "his way is the only way". Whenever I bump into "its my way or none at all" I get nervous. It always astounds me that folks who find a way out of their confusion, often from pointers who never intended that their direction be made into a monument that claims to be the only truth, take that teaching and then insist that it is the only truth. How many teachers must be moaning in discouragement when they see what those who followed them did with their teachings. :cry:

To put this into proper perspective, the following came from a link which is just too amusing:

I was walking across a bridge one day, and I saw a man standing on the edge, about to jump off. So I ran over and said "Stop! don't do it!" "Why shouldn't I?" he said. I said, "Well, there's so much to live for!" He said, "Like what?" I said, "Well...are you religious or atheist?" He said, "Religious." I said, "Me too! Are you christian or buddhist?" He said, "Christian." I said, "Me too! Are you catholic or protestant?" He said, "Protestant." I said, "Me too! Are you episcopalian or baptist?" He said, "Baptist!" I said,"Wow! Me too! Are you baptist church of god or baptist church of the lord?" He said, "Baptist church of god!" I said, "Me too! Are you original baptist church of god, or are you reformed baptist church of god?" He said,"Reformed Baptist church of god!" I said, "Me too! Are you reformed baptist church of god, reformation of 1879, or reformed baptist church of god, reformation of 1915?" He said, "Reformed baptist church of god, reformation of 1915!" I said, "Die, heretic scum", and pushed him off. -- Emo Phillips

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Postby W4TVQ » March 4th, 2005, 5:50 pm

I understand what you mean,. Anna, when you observe that "Whenever I bump into 'its my way or none at all' I get nervous." There is little to be said for the wild-eyed fanatic who demands that everyone conform to his personal experience of God.

Still, there is another point of view on the matter, one I find best stated by C. S. Lewis, to wit:

"An 'impersonal God -- well and good. A subjective God of beauty, truth and goodness, inside our own heads -- better still. A formless life-force surging through us, a vast power which we can tap -- best of all. But God Himself, alive, pulling at the other end of the cord, perhaps approaching at infinite speed, the hunter, king, husband -- that is quite another matter. There comes a moment when the children who have been playing at burglars suddenly hush: was that a real footstep in the hall? There comes a time when people who have been dabbling in religion ('Man's search for God') suddenly draw back. Supposing we really found him? We never meant it to come to that! Worse still, supposing He had found us?"

Lewis was, of course, a conservative Christian, as am I. He was fond of pointing out that Jesus, unlike any other spiritual teacher, did not say "I am showing you a way," but rather, "I Am the Way." He was one who insisted that it was His way or no way at all. And He does indeed make many very uncomfortable. Still, I have found in following Him exactly what Paul meant when he referred to "the peace that passeth all understanding." And I am convinced that at the final accounting, many will enter who thought they came by Buddha, or Krishna, or whatever, and will learn that they actually came by Jesus, Who stated quite clearly that He alone is the door, and that no one comes to the Father but by Him. So I must find a way to take Him and every word He said absolutely seriously, without "editing" His teachings to suit my little mentality, and yet take care not to limit His mercy in so doing. A tough tightrope to navigate, but with His help it can be done.

Shalom
Art
"I can at best report only from my own wilderness. The important thing is that each man possess such a wilderness and that he consider what marvels are to be observed there." -- Loren Eiseley

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Postby anna » March 4th, 2005, 6:49 pm

Are not each of us "editing" by virtue of the fact that the concepts we proclaim are through our individual, already edited, minds? In that case, even the transcription of Jesus's words were edited, by those who recorded them. Indeed, scholars, who are also Christian, are coming increasingly to the opinion that many of the words attributed to Jesus were not necessarily spoken by him. (That doesn't make them untrue, it just helps to eliminate exclusivity.)

We use the words that best suit us - as to a Hindu, Krishna is every bit as real and as Holy as Jesus is to a Christian, and to substitute Jesus for Krishna, withinin my own personal mind, who realizes there is no difference, works fine, but in the mind of many Hindus, it is confrontational, as would, if it were reversed, many Christians find substituting Krishna for Jesus to be confrontational.

Until each of us realizes that we use words to signify a universal truth, that some call God, some call Jesus, some call Krishna, there will be those who insist that their "words" are the truth, which in fact the words are meaningful only to that individual, and not necessarily to others. The words are a means of communicating a truth that actually can't be put into words. To try to capture God within words is a futile effort.

With respect to the statement attributed to Jesus "I Am the Way", there are numerous individuals, both living and dead, before Jesus's time, and after, who have uttered the same words with the same conviction, the only difference being that most cultures prefer to limit that statement to their own chosen deity. It is this reluctance to acknowledge that other beings at other times are equally holy, in addition to Jesus, that creates the problem and almost always evolves into conflict.

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Postby That I am » March 4th, 2005, 7:07 pm

We can see at it however we like, they will all remain the product of our MIND! In other words, just THOUGHTS..........whether we "like" it or not....isn't that right? Just concepts................words..........
Isn't it more "challenging" to find out WHO is "having" these thoughts??

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Postby anna » March 4th, 2005, 7:15 pm

Taking the following from Lewis' quote, which, incidentally, is beautiful.

"Supposing we really found him? We never meant it to come to that! Worse still, supposing He had found us?"

Isn't this the whole point? Isn't this the ecstacy of communion with God, isn't this what the whole "seeking" is all about, and indeed, it is, and always was, God hunting us down, not the other way, despite what we may think?

Lewis is not unique in his perspective; he is describing the process of being intoxicated with God. The Sufis preceeded Jesus, and yet spoke, and still do speak, in exactly the same way. Anyone who has been touched directly through the heart by God reports their experience the same way, in whatever name they may use to call God.

It seems to me logical, and historical, that God has a name for those who need to name him, and has no name, for those who don't need to name him. It is a simple as that, I think, and as ecumenical and as loving, as that. To try to box God into a particular religious perspective is futile, cuz no doubt, God can't be limited in any form whatsoever.

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Postby anna » March 4th, 2005, 7:24 pm

That I Am - yes, good point, great point! But you see, that's no fun, is it? That's a solitary, gripping and disciplined undertaking that requires a willingness to grapple with the unknown and one's own devious mind, and involves a kind of heavy duty "prayer" of a kind that doesn't guarantee a return. Few of us are willing, or even perhaps, able to endure that process. Certainly I found it to be grueling and without consolation sometimes. Hmmmmmm - the word consolation springs up out of this discourse. Human beings are frail things sometimes, life is hard, full of suffering, and consolation is needed. :roll:

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Postby That I am » March 4th, 2005, 7:31 pm

And after all...it is as it is......and all is well....

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Postby anna » March 4th, 2005, 7:38 pm

Yes, "it is as it is......and all is well." Well put.

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Postby anna » March 4th, 2005, 7:40 pm

So, That I Am, where would you put consolation in the scheme of things? Is there a place for it? Or is this question just designed to prolong the discussion? :wink:

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Postby Deutero » March 4th, 2005, 7:44 pm

As Saint Peter walked with me in heavem, we came upon a great high wall, and behnd it I could hear luaghter and singing. Whats that, I asked the saint. Shhh, he said, those are the christians, they think theyre the only ones here.

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Postby zoofence » March 4th, 2005, 10:13 pm

Deutero: Funny story. Of course, I am sure you realize that where you wrote "those are the Christians, they think they're the only ones here", one could substitute for the word "Christians" the name of almost any group, sect, cult, organization, institution, nation, and so on, and still be, unfortunately, close to correct. Sad world.

w4: Interesting perspective. I've never heard that take on Jesus' teaching. Speaking for myself alone, my own experience has taught me that the more I tell others what they should understand a Teacher's words to mean for them in their lives along their path, the thinner gets the ice under my feet. That is, putting words in a Teacher's mouth is a very risky business. As you know, even the apostles in the Gospels who were in the man's very presence missed his point repeatedly (and undoubtedly argued among themselves about who among them understood him better). It figures that when we find a Way that is so clearly right for us, we naturally assume it must be right for everyone else, too, even if we have to force square blocks into round holes to make it so. On the other hand, I agree with you that in the end we will discover that there is only one Teacher in the Universe and one Teaching, and that all the Teachers already know that and have been Teaching us that very lesson all along. But we, perceiving ourselves and everything else separatively (including our Teacher and our path, not to mention our God), insist that "my way" is more nearly God's Way than everyone else's. What a piece of work is man!

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Christ in you

Postby That I am » March 5th, 2005, 7:43 am

I know what you mean, Anna, at least I think that I know! I wouldn't use the word "consolation", I'd rather use the word "compassion" (words, again!).
And of course: life is hard and there is suffering, but let's face it: isn't most of this "suffering" due to the fact that we identify ourselves with our "ego" ( another hot issue); thinking that we ARE that ego instead of seeing, knowing that we are not that ego but that we HAVE an ego?
Life is simple, Anna, not easy!


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