Jesus and Judas

This is a dramatic interpretation of a conversation that I hope took place among Jesus and Judas and Mary Magdalene in the moments before The Last Supper (Mark 14, John 13). For me, this interpretation helps to explain why Jesus, a Divine Teacher (John 13:13), encouraged, even ordered (in his words, “What you are going to do, do quickly” John 13:27) his disciple Judas to betray him in a way that he, Jesus, must have known would ensure his own arrest and likely crucifixion (John 13:21), and the eternal damnation of his disciple, Judas. (John 17:12?)

Those eight words just do not sound like something a True Teacher, any teacher, would speak to a student or a disciple in that way under those circumstances without some kind of prior explanation or preparation. Jesus was awake and aware; he had to have known precisely what was in Judas’ mind and its implications. Consider that after a brief meeting with a Samaritan woman at Jacob’s Well in Sycha, Jesus “told me all that I ever did” (John 4). If Jesus could read all there was to know about a woman whom he had only just met, it is not conceivable that he could not read Judas, head to toe.

In sum, if Jesus knew what was on Judas’ mind, which being Jesus he surely did, are we to believe that he would have ordered Judas to betray him, thereby sentencing Judas to eternal damnation and himself to crucifixion, without exchanging in advance at least a few words of surprise, agreement, disagreement, discouragement, encouragement … something. I’m sorry, that is simply not believable.

The Gospels writers reported the crucifixion event as a betrayal because that is what it looked like to them. But was it? Something is missing. I suspect the incident unfolded differently than it was reported. And if so, we may owe it to Judas and to Jesus to rethink our perception of it. To jump immediately to that, click here.

On the other hand … before you continue any further, please consider this: Here and there on The Zoo Fence, the name Jesus appears, and rightly so, for he is a radiant Teacher. But Jesus is the English form of the Latin form of the Greek form of the Hebrew word Yeshua or Yehoshua. In fact, scholars tell us the man’s name was almost certainly an Aramaic word, most likely something like Issa. Given that, I cannot help but wonder, is it appropriate for me, for us, to consider him, to address him, to love him, even to pray to him, by the English version of the Latin name used by Pontius Pilate and his Roman soldiers as they drove iron nails into his hands and feet. Surely his mother, his siblings, his disciples did not address him by that Roman name.

Suppose a dear friend of yours were arrested and tortured by a foreign authority, and they called her or him by a name more suitable to their language, would you adopt it? The question answers itself, doesn’t it?

Just so, I am beginning to think of him by the name Issa instead of Jesus. And I am beginning to add the name Issa here and there on The Zoo Fence. If that makes you uncomfortable, I get that. It has taken me a long time to get this far, which is admittedly only a single step.

Here, he is Jesus. This identical script is repeated here, except there he is Issa. To be sure, it almost certainly makes no difference to him what we call him. But the question I wrestle with is, shouldn’t it make a difference to me, to us?

For a couple of (in my view) important comments & questions related to these precious moments, please click here.

For a consideration of The Last Supper as I see it,
please click here.

For a consideration of the crucifixion of Jesus,
please click here.

For additional consideration of the names Jesus and Issa, please click here
The full text of my book “In The Beginning” is here.
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(or on the words “The Zoo Fence” at the top of any page).
To open this playlet where Jesus is Issa, please click here.

And now, finally, the suggested conversation among Jesus, Judas, and Mary Magdalene.

The Time: Midday, a few hours before The Last Supper
The Place: Jerusalem, a grassy knoll
Present: Jesus, who is seated on the grass, and Judas, who is walking by.

Jesus (to Judas): There you are. Good. Come, sit next to me. We have to talk. There’s something I need you to do, something the two of us need to do together.

Judas (walks over, sits on the grass beside Jesus): Of course, Teacher. Whatever. (John 13:13)

Jesus: You’re a good man, Jay. But, trust me, you are not going to like this. (“Jay” is Jesus’ nickname for Judas.)

Judas: Please don’t say that, Teacher. Doing anything for You is my favorite thing. Whatever you need, just ask.

Judas: Of course I do. A sinner lays his hand on a lamb, thereby passing his sin to the lamb; the lamb is slaughtered, and the sinner is cleansed.

Jesus: What can I tell you, He’s God. (pauses, takes a breath) So, this is the way it’s going down. I am to be the lamb. Pilate, who as you know is looking for an excuse to get rid of me, what with all my talk of a New Kingdom, has been selected as the executioner, and …

Judas (interrupting): No, no, no! You know what that means, don’t You? You’re not a Roman citizen. You don’t get a clean chop at the neck. You get crucifixion. No, please, don’t say that word.

Jesus (with finality): Yes, I know. And here’s the thing: We’ve selected you to put it in motion. Dad and I want you to go to Pilate, and tell him where I am, and when he can find me here.

Judas (with panic): You’re scaring me. Please tell me You’re joking. Please, sir, say it’s …

Jesus (interrupting): I’m sorry, Jay, but it’s no joke. (Jesus affectionately takes Judas’ hand in his) Near the end of today’s meal, I am going to instruct you to go to Pilate, and tell him where he can find me. (with emphasis) The others are not to know what we’re doing until it’s in train. Mom, too. I mean that. So, I will say to you something simple that none of them will understand, something like “Go!” And, without any comment, you will do as I am telling you now. Is that clear?

Judas: Of course, Teacher, I will do as You say. (Jesus releases Judas’ hand) But You’re not telling the others? They’re going to blame all of this on me. They’re already jealous about Your having picked me as treasurer, even accusing me of “helping myself” to the group’s funds (John 12:6). You know I don’t mind taking heat for You; I love You so. But mankind will hate me forever.

Jesus to Mary: I am glad you have come, Ems. It is good to have you here just now. Sit. (There are several Marys among Jesus’s close followers, so each has a nickname. ‘Ems’ is Jesus’ idea for the two M’s in Mary Magdalene.) (Mary sits on the grass next to Jesus and Judas.)

Mary (to Jesus): Thank You, Teacher. (With respect, but firmly) If You need to have a secret conversation, then please have it in secret, not on an open lawn. (turns toward Judas with a smile and a hint of sarcasm) Jay, what’s–his–name, he who has a nasty habit of badmouthing you, (her face shows disgust) has been eavesdropping on this conversation, probably still is. (pauses, turns to us, the audience) Speaking of which, I am compelled to take a moment to clarify for you Judas’ earlier comment about being accused of stealing from our money box (John 12:6). All of the group’s money comes from me and a few other women who provide for Jesus out of our own means. (Luke 8:1-3) That accusation against Judas is a baldfaced lie, and I can say that with confidence because, believe me, if Judas or anyone else was helping himself to our money, Joanna, Susanna, Martha, Other, and I would have put him on a bus! (pauses, then sternly) I hope that’s clear. (sighs) (“Other” is Jesus’ nickname for the Mary named “the other Mary” at Matthew 27:61 and 28:1) (Mary turns back to Jesus and Judas) In fact, he is now out there telling the rest of us that (to Judas) you’re going to lead Pilate to us so that he can arrest and crucify (to Jesus) You.

Judas (to Jesus): What’d I tell You. My name’s going to be mud for all time.

Mary (to Judas): Not if I can help it, Jay. (to Jesus) Master (John 13:13), I understand there is a call for a sacrificial event. (Jesus raises his eyebrows) Yea, he told us about that, too. But why Jay? His love for You is intense; betraying You, even seeming to betray You, will kill him. If we have to do it, let it be me who delivers You to Pilate. No one here will dare accuse me. They’re all afraid of me. Assertive women scare the hell out of them, if You’ll pardon the expression. And my name? No matter what I do, the church is going to call me a whore. So what? I know who I am. Thanks to You!

Jesus (with a broad smile): I am proud of you, Ems. All the more for offering yourself on behalf of Jay. But you know, you both know, as well as I do, it would not work. It cannot be you. You’re a woman. Pilate won’t pay attention to a woman.

Jesus (lightly): Just wait. That will improve. The women’s movement is coming; but it is still a couple thousand years off. (with seriousness) Here’s the thing. This task cannot be done by any of the others. Bless their hearts, none of them understands what I have been Teaching the way you two do. (a couple of tears are seen to form in Judas’ eyes) In their minds, it’s always been about us against Rome, politics and warfare, good guys and bad guys. Outer, not inner. (pauses in thought) Remember, they wanted me to burn a Samaritan village to the ground because it refused to welcome us. (Luke 9:54) Some of this stuff is over their heads. Their devotion, impassioned as it is, would not permit them to go peaceably to Pilate. They would insist on being armed. There would be a riot. The tenor of the event would be lost. (Jesus pauses. Turns to Judas) I’m sorry, Jay, but it’s got to be you.

The place: Heaven.
The time: A while since Jesus, Judas. and Mary Magdalene spoke.
Present: God, seated on a soft cloud.
A few feet off is Judas. He is walking uncertainly, toward God.
He has performed precisely as instructed by Jesus.

God (seeing Judas): There you are. I’ve been waiting for you. Sit down, next to Me.

God: Yes, I AM (Exodus 3:14). Don’t be nervous, it’s okay. My boy told Me about the conversation you two had, and I knew you would be coming, so I wanted to be here for you, soon as you arrived. How are you?

Judas: I’m afraid to tell You. You see, after talking to Pilate, I … what I did was …

God: I know what you did. You killed yourself. It’s alright, Jay. I understand. Really, I do. In your place, if I thought of myself as mortal, as you think of yourself, I might have done the same thing. Don’t worry about it. The boy’s being tortured right now, even as we speak. Soon, they will be driving nails through his hands and feet. That image is what killed you, thinking, believing that you are the cause of your beloved Teacher’s death. No, you only did what I wanted you to do. Please trust Me; the boy’s fine. He will be here with the two of us, soon. I will have him sit right next to you.

God: Suffering is the mind taking the body’s pain personally. Jesus takes nothing personally. And neither should you. That’s My Area. As for pain, Jesus recognizes pain as the body’s proper response to some disorder or an abuse, a call for the brain’s attention. He knows that.

Judas (still confused): I guess. I still hate what I, we, are doing to him. (pause) May I ask a question?

Judas (with conviction): Why? Why is this happening? How does his dying cleanse me of my sins, cleanse mankind of our sins?

God: Ah, yes, finally the real question. I congratulate you. (pause) I regret having to tell you, the answer is: It doesn’t. Only you can do that. Sins are undone the same way as they are done … in your mind, in your heart, by your actions.

Judas (alarmed): Damn You! (immediately upon realizing what he has just said, and to Whom, Judas goes to his knees, his head down to his feet)

God: (gently lifts Judas back to a seated position) Wow! That was refreshing. Thank you. I love it when people are honest with Me. It’s so rare. (God smiles) But let’s get right back to your question. It is a crucial one. I am so glad you asked it. (pauses) The point of the crucifixion is not that Jesus dies on the cross; the point is that he doesn’t. That’s why, any second now, he will appear to Ems (John 20:11), fully alive. His appearance to her demonstrates that even after such a brutal bodily death — something the Romans sure do know how to orchestrate — her Beloved Teacher is alive, always alive. Why? Because physical death is the opposite of physical birth, not of life. There is no opposite to life. Life is eternal. Jesus’ awakening into eternal life occurred in Bethany with John the Baptist (Mark 1:10). There, Jesus ceased perceiving himself as the bodily Jesus, and awoke to his True Identity as Christ — something each of you need to do, and will do, at the ripe time. It is precisely that Awakening which the dove’s landing there is intended to signify. I figured a dove would be a metaphor no one could miss. That life never dies. Nothing kills it. That’s the lesson of the crucifixion.

Jesus (with surprise): How was it? What a question! (turns to Judas) He’s something, isn’t He?

Comment
In the year 591, Pope Gregory I decided Mary Magdalence was the sinful woman who washed Jesus’ feet at Luke 7:37. In the biblical context, a sinful woman means a prostitute. While Gregory may have been correct in his determination, there is nothing in the Gospels to confirm it. See here.

And there's this … a very brief set of lines that I wrote for this page a long time ago but never posted.

The Time: A few hours before The Last Supper
The Place: Jerusalem, the grassy knoll
Present: Judas, Mary Magdalene, and Issa (Jesus)
All are seated on the grass.
None of them appears to be at ease.

Jesus (to Mary): Okay, Ems, why'd you come over? What’s this about?

Mary (to Jesus): You know very well what this is about. It’s about the private conversation you and he (indicates Judas) had about his going to Jerusalem to tell Pontius Pilate where he can find you.

Judas (surprised, to Mary): How do you know about that? (to Jesus) It wasn’t me. I didn't tell her.

Mary: No, it wasn’t you, Jay. It was what’s-his-name, the sneak, (to Judas) you know, the jerk — (to Jesus) sorry, but that’s what he is — (to Judas) the one who’s always accusing you of stealing (John 12:6). (to Jesus) I’ve never liked him. None of us likes him. Martha can’t stand him. She says she doesn’t like the way he looks at her. She calls him “the creep,” and for her, that’s a powerful cussword. (a pause) Anyway, while you and Jay were here talking, he was, as usual, sneaking around, and he overheard you. Of course, he told the rest of us. (to Jesus) He claims he wasn't snooping, that you told him, and of course he brags about that. (to Judas) He says you suggested crucifixion, that it was your idea.

Jesus: Oh, for Dad's sake, that’s ridiculous. (to Judas) Tell her what you and I agreed, that you’d go to Pilate.

Judas (to Jesus): Oh, no, you know very well I didn't agree. I didn’t like it then, and I still don’t like it. (to Mary) I promised I’d do what he wanted, I’d turn Him in to Pilate, but it wasn't my idea, and I didn't say I'd like doing it. Just that I'd do as He asked.

Jesus: Okay, fine. (to Mary) Dad thinks the world’s so deep in sin, it needs a cosmic sacrificial-lamb event, something involving a big shot. Like me. That's what set this in motion. That's how I got involved. God says it’s either that or another great flood. So we agreed that he (indicates Judas) would turn me in to Pilate, and that Pilate would crucify me.

Mary: Well, if that’s what God wants, who are we to argue? But I have to tell you, none of us likes your involving Jay that way. Especially your ordering Jay to do it while we are at the table … eating! (Matthew 26:20) And then keeping it a secret. (in disbelief) What were the three of you thinking? Start to finish, it’s a terrible idea and a terrible image.

Judas, forcefully: Not three of us! It's just the two of them. I didn't like it from the start. Including the secrecy. My name's going to be mud forever.

Mary: (to Judas) Not if I can help it. (to Jesus/Issa) None of us understands what you are putting into motion here. But if it's what you and your Father want, then we must do it. But using Jay to turn you in to Pilate, stinks. Those of us who live here, will know it was your doing, your idea and your command to him. But others will blame him (John 13:26). They'll say Pilate offered him something, probably a handul of silver pieces, and he fell for it, and let Pilate murder you. It's nonsense, of course, but others will believe it, the world will believe it, and Jay will have to live with it. I hate it. I hate everything about it. It's thoughtless and unlike you.

Jesus: (to Mary) Okay, you've made your point. (to Judas) I agree with Mary. However we set this in motion, she's right, it shouldn't be you. (to Mary) So, if not Jay, who?

Mary, forcefully: You, that's who. You should go to Pilate yourself. Not send Judas. Or anyone else. Turn yourself in to Pontius Pilate, to his face. And let him crucify you. Which he will, just like you and your Father apparently want him to do, convinced as you two apparently are that your being crucified will accomplish something necessary to this time and place in history. But generating it yourself as I suggest doesn't implicate anyone else, especially not Judas. Just you and Pilate, the two of you. That's how it should be. The Divine and the human. Heaven and earth. No intermediaries. Clean.

Jesus: (to Judas) Your thoughts?

Judas (resigned): You know me, I think we should all run for the hills. But if this is what you want — if it's what God wants — then of course, tell me how I can help.

Here are a few questions I continue struggling with over the relationship between Jesus and Judas. But before addressing those, we need to remind ourselves that scholars agree that none of the Gospels were originally written by the persons to whom they are attributed, that is, not Mark, Matthew, Luke, or John; and, scholars are agreed they do not know who did write any of the Gospels; and, scholars agree the Gospels were probably written between forty to more than a hundred years after the death of Jesus; and, scholars are agreed that the Gospels were almost certainly not written by eyewitnesses to the events they report; and, we do not have an original manuscript of any of the Gospels, meaning every one of the Gospels we have is a copy of a copy of a copy of a copy of an original manuscript; and, our copy of a copy of a copy of a copy is not originally a product of an electronic copy machine that always produces identical copies; rather, our copy of a copy of a copy of a copy is a copy of a product originally written by hand in ink by someone who was not an eyewitness on who knows what quality of paper, stored who knows where, under who knows what conditions, and later copied again, and that copy later copied again, also by hand in ink on who knows what quality of paper, stored who knows where, under who knows what conditions, all of it routinely and repeatedly subjected to the vagaries of life, including fire, flood, war, erosion, banning, prohibition, carelessness, fraud, vandalism, not to mention ordinary year-to-year aging (look in a mirror — how closely do you resemble the lump of flesh your mother produced on your birth date?). The wonder is that the material remains, and is alive, even vibrantly so.

Now, the exchange between Jesus and Judas: How is it that Judas knew precisely what Jesus was referring to when he ordered Judas “What you are going to do, do quickly” at John 13:27? I get how Jesus, being Jesus (John 4:29), knew what was in Judas’ mind, but how did Judas know what was in Jesus’ mind? Judas obviously did know, otherwise he would have queried — “Do what quickly?” At the least, he would have displayed embarrassment, discomfort, even fear. But there was none of that. Jesus ordered, Judas obeyed.

To me, that means Judas knew what was in Jesus’ mind, and was expecting the command. And that, in turn, means that Jesus and Judas must have spoken earlier. If so, are we to believe that on learning of Judas’ intention to turn in Jesus to Pilate, Jesus’ response was, simply, “Okay, that’s fine.” Really? Is it not more likely Jesus would have said something like, “Do not do that! Betraying me will send you to Hell for all time.” There had to have been a conversation between the two of them. Why is that conversation not reported? At issue is, did Judas sin, or did he simply obey his Master? That is not an oh-by-way question; it is critical. That being so, why do not the Gospels mention it? I never heard it addressed in Sunday School … or from a pulpit or in a year-long college class on religion. Why not?

Further, the Gospels say that, in the midst of the event at the Last Supper, Satan entered Judas (Luke 22:3). If the Gospels writers knew it, surely Jesus knew it. If Jesus knew it, why did he not command Satan, as he had done successfully before (Luke 4:8), “Get thee behind him, Satan!”? That is, why didn’t Jesus come to a disciple’s defense? Surely that’s something a Teacher would do, especially as loving and wondrous a Teacher as Jesus.

Also, why is it that none of the other eleven had any idea what Jesus was talking about when he said to Judas “What you are going to do, do quickly”? Here’s John 13:28: “no one at the table knew why he (Jesus) said this to him (Judas).” Why didn’t they know? Why didn’t they ask? Why did Jesus keep it a secret? Why did Jesus not protect Judas’ reputation by warning the other eleven that he knew what Judas was intent on doing, and that he, Jesus, had approved it, or at least not forbidden it? Why didn’t the Gospels writers wonder about this, and include some comment? They must have known we would wonder. Jesus must have known we would wonder. Didn’t they, didn’t he, owe as much to Judas … to history, to us?

Consider this: If Arthur Conan Doyle or Agatha Christie wrote a mystery story that included an unresolved blank space at a crucial moment in the story, it would have made fiction history. Critics and fans across the planet would discuss it, analyze it, decipher it, for years on end. And yet, here we are; no one notices, no one wonders, no one says anything. Why is that?

To open my consideration of the Last Supper event (John 13:1-31), please click here.

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