prayer

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anvil46
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prayer

Postby anvil46 » March 19th, 2009, 1:43 am

This is my view of prayer , for what it is worth. We pray as a , theologian , I can not remember his name but I claim only semi-literacy , that we pound on the door that God has shut and latched between us . O K , my limited unjudgemental view of THE MOST HIGH is that of perfect LOVE ,period . most of the praying I have been part of or heard is us yelling at GOD that SHE has got it wrong and everything would be so much better if we , I , us. were in charge. We don't pray , we accuse GOD and want to make deals. In the prayer between a PERFECT DIETY and us who do you think is getting it wrong. The Great Invocation is really not a prayer to GOD so much as it a a call to us to open the door. GOD did not send us away we ran away and still blame HER. When we start acting as the children of GOD that we are , pretty much all the things that need to be prayed for will happen. Perhaps I am just too childish in my explanation for some of the very erudite discussions here but if I can help a little it is worth seeming a bit foolish.

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Speculum
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Re: prayer

Postby Speculum » March 25th, 2009, 7:36 pm

Like everything else along the spiritual path, prayer is intensely personal and intimate. It is a conversation between a seeker and God (however defined). Accordingly, I wonder if it is either appropriate or possible for someone to tell another how to pray.

I can speak only for myself. For me, prayer has changed as I have changed, but it has always been a conversation between me and God. Sometimes it consists of me asking, begging, for some perceived need, other times, thanking for something received, but most often, just talking. Increasingly, prayer is a synonym for living. That is, as I see it, simply being alive is a form of communion with God. And the more we are aware of that, the more we focus our lives on it, the more fulfilled will our lives be. The Simple Way and this article specifically about prayer address this issue, too.

In this context God for me is Mother. And so I feel pretty much free to talk to Her and with Her in almost any way that seems appropriate and necessary, and I do so from time to time all day long. For more about that, please see here.

Further, I have often urged others who are suffering from anger (at anything) to take their anger out on God. Go into the woods or a quiet room, call on God, and scream bloody murder, pound one's chest, kick the ground, and so on, about whatever issue it is that is generating anger. If done properly, enthusiastically, even vehemently, this process will release all or most of the anger, leaving the person free of it. And Mother, knowing nothing but love, will transform all of the energy thus expended into love, and send it right back. In other words, in those circumstances, I hear Her telling me, "Don't let your anger eat at you, and don't let it interfere with your relationships with others or with any aspect of your life. Rather, give it to Me, and I will turn it into something wondrous!"

As for whoever wrote about prayer that "we pound on the door that God has shut and latched between us", my experience has been that there is no such door, and what's more, if there were, God would be the first Person to kick it Open.
"The only real voyage of discovery consists not in seeking new landscapes but in having new eyes." Marcel Proust

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anvil46
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Re: prayer

Postby anvil46 » April 5th, 2009, 12:27 am

I think the theologian I referred to is G. K. Chesterton . I approach the subject of prayer reluctantly , as you say it is a private conversation between a being and its Creator . I only try to reduce blasphemy [please easy with the reaction I use it as a noun ] as an aid to my fellow beings . While we are cursing we can not have the joy that is our birth-right , anger cuts us off immediately from our CREATOR , not because we are being punished by the CREATOR but as cause and effect . GOD is love and anger cuts the flow . To make your life a prayer is such good advice , as I think , we are either praying or cursing. Love GOD. Love HER creation . In this is freedom . I am still much more an expert at anger and cursing than Love and prayer . But I work at being an instrument of GOD'S will which is for me to be a creature of Joy.It is so easy when it is right and impossible when it is 'contrary'. 'Contrary' n Appalachian term for at odds with or opposed to everything.
namaste
stew

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Speculum
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Re: prayer

Postby Speculum » April 21st, 2009, 2:04 pm

I only try to reduce blasphemy [please easy with the reaction I use it as a noun ] as an aid to my fellow beings . While we are cursing we can not have the joy that is our birth-right, anger cuts us off immediately from our CREATOR , not because we are being punished by the CREATOR but as cause and effect .


I agree.

But here's the thing. Words like "blasphemy" and "heresy" make me nervous, and raise questions in my mind like "As defined by whom?" and "Who gave him/her (whoever) the right, not to mention the wisdom, to define others' relationship with God?"

I notice that the Great Teachers, the Self-Realized ones, do not seem to talk much about blasphemy and heresy. I think there is something for us to learn there.

Of course, the points you make are sound. As I say, I agree with you.

I guess I just don't like the word "blasphemy" even with your parenthetical caveat. It's not the word's fault; it's had a bad history.
"The only real voyage of discovery consists not in seeking new landscapes but in having new eyes." Marcel Proust

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anvil46
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Re: prayer

Postby anvil46 » May 4th, 2009, 4:44 am

I don't like the words and there baggage either but I don't know how to say precisely what I mean , hay I am a welder. What I am trying to get to is my relationship with 'THE ALMIGHTY' . see we are so trapped by this ambiguous language of ours. IMHO loving a loving GOD as opposed to worshipping a demon , is the first step to joy in this life. The old saying that if your god hates everybody u do there is a mixup somewhere. I actively hated GOD for decades after the death of my infant son, so I speak , even if a small voice , from some experience. Jesus supposedly said 'Love God above all ' and after I worked through the darkness ,as Craig Bullock of the Assi Institute said to me , u were only having a lover's quarrel . The whole time I cursed GOD and abused his creatures GOD was still there giving me opportunity after opportunity to stop hurting my self and to find refuge in GOD's love for me and mine for GOD . This brought about a quantum shift in how I viewed everything . Yes I still struggle mightily with the day to day and occasional personal tragedy , [in everyones life there tragedies]. So now I pray that I change as GOD has been doing Her part [yes the her is almost ridiculous referring to a Entity that we could not comprehend anything more than 'GOD loves me',but right now that is what i want] again this works for me and I am sticking to it.
namaste my Brother . I needed this tonight.
stew

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zoofence
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Re: prayer

Postby zoofence » May 5th, 2009, 2:32 pm

I don't know how to say precisely what I mean.


You are saying it clearly to me.

And I agree with you.


only having a lover's quarrel


I like that. My experience is that God would much prefer to have a "quarrel" with us than to have us ignore God (however defined) or to be in ignorance of God's role and presence in our lives.

As for God as a "She", we do that often (for more about that, please see here and here).

You're quite right, using any name for "an Entity that we cannot comprehend" is undoubtedly silly, but we have to start from where we are. And, as we suggest here, God being infinite, every word is God's name, so God will answer, must answer, to every word!

It distresses me to learn that you lost an infant son to death. I do not blame you for "hating" God after that. Parents are not supposed to outlive their children, and when they do, it must be awful for them. I am delighted that you have been able to "find refuge in God's love for me and mine for God". That could not have been easy, and I applaud you for remaining sufficiently open and receptive, despite your discomfort, to allow that growth to occur.

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anvil46
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Re: prayer

Postby anvil46 » May 13th, 2009, 3:10 am

I did not stay open and receptive . I was ' bad ,mean , evil tempered , etc. That is what I am trying to get across even when I actively viewed god as a demon and lived that belief , still there were people , places, experiences , that were 'GOD'S LOVE' that I kept bumping into and screaming my denial and hatred . Hence I was on the path when I was actively doing all I could to be not on the path . GOD never gave up on me and loved me through all my violent barbaric hate and pain driven behavior . That forgiveness thing , it works , that bit about loving you neighbors , it works too. It is the unloved that need it the most.
namaste
stew

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anvil46
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Re: prayer

Postby anvil46 » July 14th, 2009, 1:48 am

where is everyone ? my fellow sand boxers have u all found enlightenment and have left me alone on this empty shore???

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W4TVQ
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Re: prayer

Postby W4TVQ » July 14th, 2009, 8:40 pm

Hence I was on the path when I was actively doing all I could to be not on the path .


I know exactly what you are saying, having trod that thorny path myself. I came into AA kicking and screaming, muttering darkly about the $#%!^&*! God Who let me get into such a mess (His fault, all His fault). An assortment of churches had already tried and failed to make an impresison on me: I see now that they were peddlng religion, not the unconditional love of God. But I found, along with Gary Paxton (read his story, it's incredible) that "He was there all the time, waiting patiently in line." As that really great book The Shack puts it (represents Jesus as saying), "I will travel any path to find you."

So here we are. As for having found enlightenmnent, well, of course, now I know that there are two possible answers to everything: "42" and "Cottleston Pie."
"I can at best report only from my own wilderness. The important thing is that each man possess such a wilderness and that he consider what marvels are to be observed there." -- Loren Eiseley

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anvil46
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Re: prayer

Postby anvil46 » July 15th, 2009, 3:06 am

thanks my Brother , I see by your bio thing that we have much in common , am pleased we met on the electron path.
stew

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Speculum
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Re: prayer

Postby Speculum » July 18th, 2009, 7:14 pm

anvil46 asked, "Where is everyone? My fellow sand boxers, have u all found enlightenment and have left me alone on this empty shore?"

Speaking for us, when summer finally comes to Maine after our long and cold winter, we spend much of our time outside, cleaning up winter's leftovers (broken branches, shifted buildings, dead plants) and tending our vegetable garden. Thus, in these first summer months, we are not on the internet as much as we might otherwise be.

But we have certainly not left you alone!
"The only real voyage of discovery consists not in seeking new landscapes but in having new eyes." Marcel Proust

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W4TVQ
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Re: prayer

Postby W4TVQ » July 19th, 2009, 3:25 pm

It works exactly opposite down here in Southwest Florida: summer drives us inside to escape from the sweltering heat, gnats, :mad2: mosquitoes and, occasionally, thunderstorms.

We have four seasons here: summer, summer, summer, and tourist invasion.

:clever:
"I can at best report only from my own wilderness. The important thing is that each man possess such a wilderness and that he consider what marvels are to be observed there." -- Loren Eiseley


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